Rank Progression Suggestion

[Maverick]

Good day Councilors, JAWA's, Members of the forums,

I come to you all with an idea born straight from the deep dark depths of mine and a few other members brains (I think). I know this topic must have been brought up before but in my absence I must have missed it from so long ago. I am also not too informed on the great clan shakeup of 2015 but I could imagine this idea may have been brought up during that time as well. The idea, which was spoken of by a few members in voice chat (I can't remember who all was there tbh, guess my brain aint that good) was along the lines of adding a few more ranks to progress through as well as the addition of Pathway ranks such as Dark side and Light side ranks. 

I know there is a pathway choice on the WikiJawa and after a certain Council member discovered it *cough cough* Camera *cough cough* the discussion ensued and ideas were thrown around. Effectively there would be Light Side, Dark Side and Neutral (Bounty Hunter, Smugglerish maybe) ranks if we could develop it and would go something along the lines of this:

**Latest Edit 5Feb23**
To add to the suggestion Helena recommended a pathway implementation of the ranks allowing Consular, Sentinel, Guardian and Warrior pathways for the Ranks. I believe this to be the best compromise between both Camera's idea and my original suggestion as it gives people a chance to choose their path within the ranks and be recognized all the way up to Leader for their pathway choice. This could also be worked more in the future to allow those who reach the rank of their tree to either utilize their Pathway rank or their official rank ex. a Lord May go by Consular Instead since they chose that path, etc. but we can hash those details out at a later date, for now I believe this is the most recent and up to date suggestion for ultimate rank progression and pathway choices. 
 

Leader | Leader | Leader | Leader

Council | Council | Council | Council

Master | Master | Master | Master

Lord | Lord | Lord | Lord

Elite | Elite | Elite | Elite

Consular | Sentinel | Guardian | Warrior

Knight | Knight | Knight | Marauder

Jedi | Jedi | Jedi | Sith

Adept | Adept | Adept | Acolyte

Padawan | Padawan | Padawan | Apprentice

Initiate | Initiate | Initiate | Novice

**Edited 4feb23 with the most up to date proposal at this time**

Leader | Leader

Council | Council

Master | Master

Lord | Lord

Elite | Elite

Guardian | Warrior

Knight | Marauder

Jedi | Sith

Adept | Acolyte

Padawan | Apprentice

Initiate | Novice

*Note: I believe right now our best interest (from my point of view) is to work on implementing these ranks and dark side path then once we get everything hammered out with this we can revisit the Custom Ranks and Neutral ranks as another addition/update to better fit JAWA's direction as a clan.


**Edited Ranks list to trim down the fat**
Leader | Emperor    
Council | Darth      
Master | Master     
Elite | Elite     
Lord | Lord    
Guardian (Guard) |  Overseer  
Knight |  Crusader  
Jedi | Adept  
Padawan (Pad) | Acolyte   

**RP/Nickname ranks for each side added to suggestion see Nikon's response for details**
Light Side | Dark Side
----------------------
Sentinel | Marauder
Sage | Sorcerer
Shadow | Assassin
Consular | Inquisitor
Watchman | Juggernaut
Seer | Warrior

(The placement doesn't correlate I just did that to place em there lol)

Now of course the times and dates for promotions would fluctuate depending on activity and involvement as it does now but this would be great for longevity and would also be a great way to revitalize the rank structure  not to mention prevents people from stagnating sooner than they would now. It could also be a gateway to a little more Role play style of events and what not and possibly open the door for other possibilities in the future of Star Wars and JAWA. 

As of right now this is a rough draft as far as ranks and requirements go and of course they will probably change a million (not a million) times before consideration is even given but I always like to try and find ways to improve or rejuvenate processes and procedure as much as possible but not to the point where I try to reinvent the wheel ya know what I mean? I understand this will likely involve more work and dedication within the current system not to mention the Wiki, forums, discord, etc etc and I realize I may have rejoined the clan not too long ago and I don't want to come off as trying to push change on the clan since that is not my intention and would offer any assistance that you all would allow should this suggestion gain speed and interest from the Council. I just like to find new and different ways to peak peoples interest, gain more community involvement and pave the way for future possibilities! 

I would also like to state that if you think this idea is silly, stupid, dumb, absurd, not thought out, poorly presented or just straight up garbage to please feel free to say so as straight forward as you please, my feelings wont be hurt and I prefer the direct approach as far as feedback goes and wont get my feelings hurt is this suggestion is not approved, I just figured I'd put it out there!   

My closing comments would be that I appreciate even the tiniest consideration from the council and would love to hash out details and other possible ideas as much as possible. I am super motivated to do whatever I can and contribute everything I can to the clan in any way. I'd also like to say with the surge of Star Wars related Films and Video Games coming in the near future this could be a way to expand the hood of the JAWA should the council and leader deem so.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Respectfully,
Maverick


**Edited to add RP ranks and trimmed down the ranks from the original, here is the original for reference**

Leader | Emperor     
Council | Darth       
Master | Master     
Elite | Assassin      
Lord | Lord   
Guardian (Guard) | Juggernaut (Jugg)  
Knight | Inquisitor   
Sentinel | Marauder   
Jedi | Warrior   
Padawan (Pad) | Adept   
Apprentice (App) | Acolyte  
Learner | Hopeful  
Trialist 

Edited February 5 by Maverick
Edited with most up to date suggestion 4feb23

[Darman]

I know my position is for stuff like this, I'd I prefer to put the vote to the whole clan. I'm personally game for the choice of pathways with each rank/promo, but I'm not really for adding fluff ranks.

 

I would imagine if we went through with this we would need a lot of help from everyone getting various aspects updated, probably need some art created, and other stuff I can't think of at the moment. I'm not saying this to discourage. Just need to consider the work involved and maybe get people coming up with ideas in their heads.

 

Also as I like to remind people when ideas are brought up; whether your ideas are used or not, please keep them coming. I know it can be hard to get the buy in of large group, but ideas will definitely never come to fruition if they are never shared.

 

So thank you for sharing your thoughts and I hope everyone considers your ideas and respectfully contributes to the conversation.

[Maverick]

6 minutes ago, Darman said:

I know my position is for stuff like this, I'd I prefer to put the vote to the whole clan. I'm personally game for the choice of pathways with each rank/promo, but I'm not really for adding fluff ranks.

 

I would imagine if we went through with this we would need a lot of help from everyone getting various aspects updated, probably need some art created, and other stuff I can't think of at the moment. I'm not saying this to discourage. Just need to consider the work involved and maybe get people coming up with ideas in their heads.

 

Also as I like to remind people when ideas are brought up; whether your ideas are used or not, please keep them coming. I know it can be hard to get the buy in of large group, but ideas will definitely never come to fruition if they are never shared.

 

So thank you for sharing your thoughts and I hope everyone considers your ideas and respectfully contributes to the conversation.

Absolutely well said and thank you for the feedback. I did kind of feel like I was taking a big leap rather than a small step with how much work needed to go into this so like you said maybe work and implementing a pathway rank system instead of adding more ranks could be a better course of action at this point in time.

 

[nikmat936]

While updating the Pathway feature on your profile, plus @Rodiz and @redshadow, you three ended up picking similar titles - Warrior, Knight, and Marauder (raider). Rodiz wanted the title of Sith Knight bc that's what his old title was w Council Clan. Reds wanted Marauder after I presented it as one of three options (Marauder, Inquisitor, Assassin).

 

With Pathways being a lowkey thing right now, there's room for creative potential. The titles don't have to be meaningful, they serve strictly RP purposes.

 

The problem with imbuing ranks with this RP-ability, is it shoehorns people into positions they don't identify with, which is how some people feel about the ranks already.

ex. person y in the Dark Alignment tree gets promoted from Assassin to Master, but they liked the title of Assassin better.

ex. person q in the Dark Alignment tree has seen the title Dark Jedi in past SW media, and wants to have the Jedi title instead of the Warrior title on those grounds.

 

The ranks we have now don't fit my RP preferences 100%, but they serve their purpose. Instead of a new Dark Alignment rank tree, I'd want the option to customize my rank. It'd be nice to see the name (JAWA)@DarthLekku on server, or (JAWA)WarriorMaverick. Lekku would still be their respective official rank mind you, still a Guardian, but they'd also have a 'nickname rank' so to speak.

 

Of course there'd be limits, a Knight can't decide they're a Master, though if a Lord wanted to name them self a Knight I wouldn't mind. I'd be interested to help you guys draw up rules for allowing/disallowing certain nickname ranks.

 

In terms of creating a new dark alignment rank tree though, it's going to be nearly impossible to predict and provide the RP experience everyone is looking for. Official ranks are supposed to communicate a position within the clan, which in of itself is going to limit people's RP/creative engagement.

 

Nickname ranks would be more flexible, allowing people to color their character how they want, to an extent. If all I have to do is check wikijawa for your official rank, and the Council has rules for determining nickname ranks, then the potential issue of 'nickname ranks conflating your actual position in the clan' won't become significant.

ex. A Padawan wouldn't be able to call them self a Knight or a Jedi, but they could pick something more comparable, like Acolyte or Apprentice.

 

Let me know what you guys think, this is a challenging topic, it's hard to make something like this work for everyone, look forward to hearing from you guys ^^

 

Edited February 1 by nikmat936

[Maverick]

4 hours ago, nikmat936 said:

While updating the Pathway feature on your profile, plus @Rodiz and @redshadow, you three ended up picking similar titles - Warrior, Knight, and Marauder (raider). Rodiz wanted the title of Sith Knight bc that's what his old title was w Council Clan. Reds wanted Marauder after I presented it as one of three options (Marauder, Inquisitor, Assassin).

 

With Pathways being a lowkey thing right now, there's room for creative potential. The titles don't have to be meaningful, they serve strictly RP purposes.

 

The problem with imbuing ranks with this RP-ability, is it shoehorns people into positions they don't identify with, which is how some people feel about the ranks already.

ex. person y in the Dark Alignment tree gets promoted from Assassin to Master, but they liked the title of Assassin better.

ex. person q in the Dark Alignment tree has seen the title Dark Jedi in past SW media, and wants to have the Jedi title instead of the Warrior title on those grounds.

 

The ranks we have now don't fit my RP preferences 100%, but they serve their purpose. Instead of a new Dark Alignment rank tree, I'd want the option to customize my rank. It'd be nice to see the name (JAWA)@DarthLekku on server, or (JAWA)WarriorMaverick. Lekku would still be their respective official rank mind you, still a Guardian, but they'd also have a 'nickname rank' so to speak.

 

Of course there'd be limits, a Knight can't decide they're a Master, though if a Lord wanted to name them self a Knight I wouldn't mind. I'd be interested to help you guys draw up rules for allowing/disallowing certain nickname ranks.

 

In terms of creating a new dark alignment rank tree though, it's going to be nearly impossible to predict and provide the RP experience everyone is looking for. Official ranks are supposed to communicate a position within the clan, which in of itself is going to limit people's RP/creative engagement.

 

Nickname ranks would be more flexible, allowing people to color their character how they want, to an extent. If all I have to do is check wikijawa for your official rank, and the Council has rules for determining nickname ranks, then the potential issue of 'nickname ranks conflating your actual position in the clan' won't become significant.

ex. A Padawan wouldn't be able to call them self a Knight or a Jedi, but they could pick something more comparable, like Acolyte or Apprentice.

 

Let me know what you guys think, this is a challenging topic, it's hard to make something like this work for everyone, look forward to hearing from you guys ^^

 

I see what you're saying and I have a proposal that could alleviate a few of the conflicting ranks/nickname ranks based off RP alignment preferences. 

 

When I have the time today I will edit my original proposal to help visualize a more defined differentiation between official rank and RP/Nickname rank but I do like where your head is at in terms of if a Light side user is a Jedi they can use their alignment on their wiki as a nickname ranks IE they could be a Jedi but have a Sentinel pathway and be (JAWA)SentinelMaverick but on the forums it would display their official rank and possibly we could add their alignment on their profile as well to help us identify easier than having to go to the wiki (not that it is that big of a deal to look at their wiki profile but ya know).

 

When I get more time I will update the original post with a more refined system to better align with the feedback provided. 

[Darman]

I never held the rank, but I did enjoy the council rank in my old clan (and a few others) of Council of War aka CoW.

[Rodiz]

We used to have this pathway/ranking system in my previous clan and it was awesome. I understand where people coming from in terms of having a clean and straight forward structure but at the same time I don't feel like the current system represents my "dark side".

I support this suggestions but realistically it has been brought up plenty of other times (at least so I heard) and was neglected. Maybe we could meet in the middle to try to slightly satisfy the dark siders?

[p1cco]

Like Dace said during January’s League - what happens in a couple of years when everybody will be Lord? 

[Maverick]

I edited the post with a more updated proposal but still attached the original suggestion for ranks and what not.

 

4 hours ago, Rodiz said:

We used to have this pathway/ranking system in my previous clan and it was awesome. I understand where people coming from in terms of having a clean and straight forward structure but at the same time I don't feel like the current system represents my "dark side".

I support this suggestions but realistically it has been brought up plenty of other times (at least so I heard) and was neglected. Maybe we could meet in the middle to try to slightly satisfy the dark siders?

I get that too people want to avoid confusion as much as possible. A little dark side light side addition I think wouldn't muck up the straight forwardness too much.


 

 

53 minutes ago, p1cco said:

Like Dace said during January’s League - what happens in a couple of years when everybody will be Lord? 

This was another concern I was thinking of with so little of ranks which is why I suggested expanding them but maybe we work out the dark side light side kinks then revisit for rank additions if at all possible?

 

[nikmat936]

Really appreciate all the engagement with this topic, it’s exciting to see people’s interest

Edited February 2 by nikmat936

[Rodiz]

20 hours ago, p1cco said:

Like Dace said during January’s League - what happens in a couple of years when everybody will be Lord? 

 

Good point and another reason for the clan to possibly look into the structure!

[Helena Revan]

Dark Side ranks have been a popular subject for discussion since before I ever joined the clan.  We even tried them once, in 2006, following the merge with -=*BBA*=-, but when the clans split again a short time later, the Sith ranks went with them.  They get brought up again every few years, and there's some enthusiasm, but then it does down after a few weeks and nothing has been implemented.

 

That said, I think there's a fair amount of enthusiasm to try it again, and if it doesn't work out then it's easy to set aside, so I'm in favour of trying it—assuming that the council is willing to agree on that, and on a system of ranks, which is another matter.

 

However, I don't think we should alter the yellow ranks.  We want people to be able to recognize the clan's leaders by their ranks; "Lord" works at least as well for Sith as it does for everybody else, and considering what they put into earning them, I wouldn't want to ask anybody to give up the ranks of "Elite" or "Master".  Besides, "Master" definitely works for Dark Side ranks—there's even a Reborn Master class.

 

That said, I think it'd be fine if we went with six regular/Light Side ranks and six Dark Side ranks below the rank of Elite.  For the Light Side ranks we can just add "Initiate" and "Adept" back in.  Some of the ones you mentioned would work well for Dark Side ranks, although as others have pointed out, "Assassin" probably doesn't work as a rank, when it's more of a vocation.  The same goes for "Sorcerer", "Inquisitor", and "Overseer", really.  "Crusader" doesn't work, since it's literal meaning is someone who takes up the cross to fight in a holy war (for Christianity), so it doesn't fit as a Sith (or Jedi) rank.  Lastly, I don't care for the idea of "Juggernaut" as a rank, since it implies a very large, superhuman warrior—definitely not a lower-level rank, but basically not a rank at all—plus the idea of someone using "Jugg" as a rank abbreviation just sounds really wrong.

 

I also don't see a place for "Darth" as a lower-level rank—it sounds more like an "Elite/Lord/Master"-level rank, but you shouldn't necessarily be promoted out of it—all the Sith Lords used "Darth", irrespective of their importance.  So maybe it's not a good choice for a rank.

 

So my suggestion, based mostly on what Maverick already proposed, is something like this:

 

Leader | Leader

Council | Council

Master | Master

Lord | Lord

Elite | Elite

Guardian | Warrior

Knight | Marauder

Jedi | Sith

Adept | Acolyte

Padawan | Apprentice

Initiate | Novice

 

As an aside, I've always liked the idea of having "Sentinel" or "Consular" as alternatives to the "Guardian" rank, but that would probably make things too complicated.  Feel free to rip apart my analysis!

[Maverick]

I definitely like your simplified version better Helena. I think I looked a bit too deep into possible sith titles and ranks but it makes sense to use the ranks we already have established in the system and then add whatever dark side ranks we need. Overall I'm getting pretty excited over everything since I do enjoy me some dark side shenanigans >:) Thanks for the feedback Helena! 

[Dace]

I've always supported adding new/more ranks, as well as sith ranks. I used to be in JOSO, so this makes me happy seeing so many in support of the idea.

 

As for what ranks and how it should look, I think it should look something like what Helena has posted. I also like the idea of some ranks having a pathway, giving people more options for that rank.

 

I think we should see if this is something the clan as a whole supports and start moving forward with the idea.  @Jacobie @Cloud9 @IronSkull86 @RoseTyler @Sami @SephFF

[nikmat936]

Wanted to flesh out how I would implement nickname ranks ^^ I like our current ranking system, wouldn't change it, but I would add a nickname rank program that members can opt in to.

 

A clan member would have to submit a 'custom rank application' (basically "hey, can I call myself X?"), and if the council approves, then this nickname rank could be used on and off jawa server. This player would still retain their standard rank, and the standard rank would be shown as their current rank on their wikijawa profile.

 

The custom rank would not be referred to as a promotion, but would be mentioned in the Accomplishments section. The player would still officially be a Lady or a Knight, but they would also have a custom rank for roleplay purposes while playing Jedi Academy.

 

The player can switch between these two ranks at will, and even change their custom rank later on. To avoid overloading the council, I'd ask clan members to think long and hard before submitting a custom rank application.

 

Leader

Council

Master

Lord (Emperor/Empress)

Elite

Guardian (Consular, Sentinel, Darth, Chaplain, Commissar, Inquisitor)

Knight (Marauder, Warrior, Assassin, Bounty Hunter, Mercenary, Smuggler, Spy, Trooper)

Jedi (Adept, Dark Jedi, Sith)

Padawan (Initiate, Acolyte, Apprentice, Novice)

 

(Many more I haven't thought of)

 

Focusing on just light/dark is too limiting. I like the idea of a player getting promoted to Knight, and then asking 'Can I call myself (JAWA)SmugglerKen?' Greater customization will allow for greater engagement, to some extent.

 

With this in mind, I personally like the name (JAWA)ConsularCamera, and my position on the council shouldn't prevent me from having this option. If you're a Guardian, you should be able to call yourself a Knight, or an Acolyte even. The idea is, the higher your standard rank, the more options you have for your custom rank. The options really open up at Knight rank, which is 7-8 months after joining the clan.

 

One criticism of my plan is 'wouldn't a Guardian calling themself a Padawan be confusing?' I can imagine situations where it would be; say a new player stops by the server, sees you're a Padawan, but really you're a councilor.

!

To me, this seems like a mild inconvenience. Nothing a one sentence response can't fix.

 

This is the perfect opportunity to give members more control over how they express themselves in game. Let me know what you think ^^

[p1cco]

I like your idea, @nikmat936! It's very original, but it is a bit confusing. I'm not sure if it will work, might need a bit more time to get my head around it. Maybe this can be an option after we get to spend a little bit of time with the light side/dark side ranks.

 

@Helena Revan's proposal looks solid to me and regarding her last part of the post - why not add both "Sentinel" and "Consular" as actual ranks? Of course those would be light side ranks and we need to think of their dark side counterpart. Oh, and also... Maybe "Sentinel" as a cyan rank and "Consular" as a yellow rank? 

 

PS: Shout-out to @Maverickfor starting this topic and to everybody who got some input in  

[Maverick]

I couldn't agree more @DaceThank you for your input brother!

Like we talked about earlier @nikmat936It's a good idea that will need some hammering out and really get the system refined before it's pushed but I believe it has merit and could be a great asset to the Roleplay aspect of the clan.

I really do appreciate all the feedback you all have been providing and I am glad we are getting some momentum behind the post!

Thank you @p1ccofor the kind words I too am excited to see everyone engaging in this topic and I hope it keeps moving!

[nikmat936]

28 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Like we talked about earlier @nikmat936It's a good idea that will need some hammering out and really get the system refined before it's pushed but I believe it has merit and could be a great asset to the Roleplay aspect of the clan.

What I posted above is the refined, complete version. But of course I can’t name every rank a player can imagine, right? 
 

Basic concept is, near synonyms for Jedi and Padawan are ok, but nothing more unique than that is allowed for new members.
 

At Knight, you get access to basic unit types (Trooper, Smuggler) and Guardian gets access to rank names that have a more authoritative/managerial connotation (Darth [a name not a rank, but definitely could be considered a high-level ‘rank’ in relation to Warrior and Acolyte], Inquisitor, Sentinel). 
 

To me these distinctions are crystal clear, but let’s assume a player picks a custom rank that’s difficult to classify as Knight or Guardian, for example.
 

In that situation, and in every case of a custom rank change, the council’s approval/denial will be the moderating element keeping custom ranks from getting out of control. Personally, I don’t see much of an issue in giving someone a slightly more or less authoritative custom rank than they deserve. Just seems like a non issue.
 

With the rules I’ve outlined above, the implementation of custom ranks will be simple and clear. Player wants a more authoritative, prestigious name? Have to be Guardian. They want to be something basic like a stormtrooper? Have to be Knight. Easy.

 

How many people would apply for custom ranks anyway? 5-10 maybe? If there were 50 players running around with custom ranks, I can see how that could be difficult to manage and moderate. Luckily that’s not the reality we’re living in, and probably never will be.

 

The problem we’ve begun to realize, is we want our rank to be more meaningful to us. Sadly, a dark side rank tree won’t fix that problem for even the majority of players.
 

What if @Rodiz becomes a Lord, but wants to be called a Knight? Why would I have any problem w that? We don’t know Rodiz for his standard rank, we know him for his name and accomplishments.
 

These days, 10yo kids who’ve never played a videogame before aren’t joining this clan. The vast majority of players are adults, and the vast majority are competent enough to perform almost any role in the clan, whether they’re a Padawan or not. This rule of thumb has been consistent the last two years, again I mention @p1cco becoming a club captain as a Jedi, among others. 
 

So if the ranks Padawan and Jedi no longer communicate the player is new to the game/lacking a clear skill set, and strictly refers to time spent with jawa clan (unless Elite/Master/Council/Leader, but even they should have the option to pick a custom rank), why get hung up on preventing veteran members from wearing Novice ranks if they want to/got approval to do so?

 

If Picco gets to enjoy the authority of being a club captain, why would I prevent him from enjoying something so purely aesthetic as calling himself a Sith or an Acolyte? What is the loss there?

 

The issue isn’t ‘we need another alignment tree to follow’ the issue is ‘we want our ranks to be more meaningful/personal to us.’
 

Custom ranks make this easy to change and modulate, so as a Lord, you’re not stuck with Lord for eternity. You actually have more options, which makes for a more engaging experience over the long term.

Adding a dark side tree won’t provide this same degree of engagement, though if we added custom ranks and a dark side tree I wouldn’t necessarily be against it.

 

The issue is, there’s no difference between someone getting stuck with a light side rank they’re bored with (ex. got promo’d to Knight but I like the title Jedi better), or a dark side rank they’re bored with (got promo’d to Marauder, but I liked rping as a Warrior more).
 

We end up creating a second rank system without fixing the central problem of ‘man, I wish I could call myself X, I don’t want to call myself a Guardian or a Marauder, I just want to be called a Jedi’
 

Members should have the opportunity to ask for any custom rank they want. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it though >:D

[Darman]

13 minutes ago, nikmat936 said:

What I posted above is the refined, complete version. But of course I can’t name every rank a player can imagine, right? 
 

Basic concept is, near synonyms for Jedi and Padawan are ok, but nothing more unique than that is allowed for new members.
 

At Knight, you get access to basic unit types (Trooper, Smuggler) and Guardian gets access to rank names that have a more authoritative/managerial connotation (Darth [a name not a rank, but definitely could be considered a high-level ‘rank’ in relation to Warrior and Acolyte], Inquisitor, Sentinel). 
 

To me these distinctions are crystal clear, but let’s assume a player picks a custom rank that’s difficult to classify as Knight or Guardian, for example.
 

In that situation, and in every case of a custom rank change, the council’s approval/denial will be the moderating element keeping custom ranks from getting out of control. Personally, I don’t see much of an issue in giving someone a slightly more or less authoritative custom rank than they deserve. Just seems like a non issue.
 

With the rules I’ve outlined above, the implementation of custom ranks will be simple and clear. Player wants a more authoritative, prestigious name? Have to be Guardian. They want to be something basic like a stormtrooper? Have to be Knight. Easy.

 

How many people would apply for custom ranks anyway? 5-10 maybe? If there were 50 players running around with custom ranks, I can see how that could be difficult to manage and moderate. Luckily that’s not the reality we’re living in, and probably never will be.

 

The problem we’ve begun to realize, is we want our rank to be more meaningful to us. Sadly, a dark side rank tree won’t fix that problem for even the majority of players.
 

What if @Rodiz becomes a Lord, but wants to be called a Knight? Why would I have any problem w that? We don’t know Rodiz for his standard rank, we know him for his name and accomplishments.
 

These days, 10yo kids who’ve never played a videogame before aren’t joining this clan. The vast majority of players are adults, and the vast majority are competent enough to perform almost any role in the clan, whether they’re a Padawan or not. This rule of thumb has been consistent the last two years, again I mention @p1cco becoming a club captain as a Jedi, among others. 
 

So if the ranks Padawan and Jedi no longer communicate the player is new to the game/lacking a clear skill set, and strictly refers to time spent with jawa clan (unless Elite/Master/Council/Leader, but even they should have the option to pick a custom rank), why get hung up on preventing veteran members from wearing Novice ranks if they want to/got approval to do so?

 

If Picco gets to enjoy the authority of being a club captain, why would I prevent him from enjoying something so purely aesthetic as calling himself a Sith or an Acolyte? What is the loss there?

 

The issue isn’t ‘we need another alignment tree to follow’ the issue is ‘we want our ranks to be more meaningful/personal to us.’
 

Custom ranks make this easy to change and modulate, so as a Lord, you’re not stuck with Lord for eternity. You actually have more options, which makes for a more engaging experience over the long term.

Adding a dark side tree won’t provide this same degree of engagement, though if we added custom ranks and a dark side tree I wouldn’t necessarily be against it.

 

The issue is, there’s no difference between someone getting stuck with a light side rank they’re bored with (ex. got promo’d to Knight but I like the title Jedi better), or a dark side rank they’re bored with (got promo’d to Marauder, but I liked rping as a Warrior more).
 

We end up creating a second rank system without fixing the central problem of ‘man, I wish I could call myself X, I don’t want to call myself a Guardian or a Marauder, I just want to be called a Jedi’
 

Members should have the opportunity to ask for any custom rank they want. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it though >:D

 

I feel like this strays to far into the weeds for the moment we are in now. I say if we do it, we start with lightside/darkside (maybe non-force user alts for each side as well) paths which you can choose with each promo. That way you aren't stuck to one path for your entire career. Then we can evolve from there. We already have ways to dive into how we feel as individuals like skins, saber hitls/colors and custom tag colors. Here's my slightly expanded version to Helena's
 

Leader | Leader

Council | Council

Master | Master

Lord | Lord

Elite | Elite

Commando | Guardian | Warrior | Assassin

Captain | Knight | Sith | Spy

Sergeant | Jedi | Sith | Bounty Hunter

Private | Adept | Acolyte | Scoundrel

Smuggler | Padawan | Trooper

Foundling | Initiate | Novice | Cadet

 

[Maverick]

53 minutes ago, nikmat936 said:

What I posted above is the refined, complete version. But of course I can’t name every rank a player can imagine, right? 
 

Basic concept is, near synonyms for Jedi and Padawan are ok, but nothing more unique than that is allowed for new members.
 

At Knight, you get access to basic unit types (Trooper, Smuggler) and Guardian gets access to rank names that have a more authoritative/managerial connotation (Darth [a name not a rank, but definitely could be considered a high-level ‘rank’ in relation to Warrior and Acolyte], Inquisitor, Sentinel). 
 

To me these distinctions are crystal clear, but let’s assume a player picks a custom rank that’s difficult to classify as Knight or Guardian, for example.
 

In that situation, and in every case of a custom rank change, the council’s approval/denial will be the moderating element keeping custom ranks from getting out of control. Personally, I don’t see much of an issue in giving someone a slightly more or less authoritative custom rank than they deserve. Just seems like a non issue.
 

With the rules I’ve outlined above, the implementation of custom ranks will be simple and clear. Player wants a more authoritative, prestigious name? Have to be Guardian. They want to be something basic like a stormtrooper? Have to be Knight. Easy.

 

How many people would apply for custom ranks anyway? 5-10 maybe? If there were 50 players running around with custom ranks, I can see how that could be difficult to manage and moderate. Luckily that’s not the reality we’re living in, and probably never will be.

 

The problem we’ve begun to realize, is we want our rank to be more meaningful to us. Sadly, a dark side rank tree won’t fix that problem for even the majority of players.
 

What if @Rodiz becomes a Lord, but wants to be called a Knight? Why would I have any problem w that? We don’t know Rodiz for his standard rank, we know him for his name and accomplishments.
 

These days, 10yo kids who’ve never played a videogame before aren’t joining this clan. The vast majority of players are adults, and the vast majority are competent enough to perform almost any role in the clan, whether they’re a Padawan or not. This rule of thumb has been consistent the last two years, again I mention @p1cco becoming a club captain as a Jedi, among others. 
 

So if the ranks Padawan and Jedi no longer communicate the player is new to the game/lacking a clear skill set, and strictly refers to time spent with jawa clan (unless Elite/Master/Council/Leader, but even they should have the option to pick a custom rank), why get hung up on preventing veteran members from wearing Novice ranks if they want to/got approval to do so?

 

If Picco gets to enjoy the authority of being a club captain, why would I prevent him from enjoying something so purely aesthetic as calling himself a Sith or an Acolyte? What is the loss there?

 

The issue isn’t ‘we need another alignment tree to follow’ the issue is ‘we want our ranks to be more meaningful/personal to us.’
 

Custom ranks make this easy to change and modulate, so as a Lord, you’re not stuck with Lord for eternity. You actually have more options, which makes for a more engaging experience over the long term.

Adding a dark side tree won’t provide this same degree of engagement, though if we added custom ranks and a dark side tree I wouldn’t necessarily be against it.

 

The issue is, there’s no difference between someone getting stuck with a light side rank they’re bored with (ex. got promo’d to Knight but I like the title Jedi better), or a dark side rank they’re bored with (got promo’d to Marauder, but I liked rping as a Warrior more).
 

We end up creating a second rank system without fixing the central problem of ‘man, I wish I could call myself X, I don’t want to call myself a Guardian or a Marauder, I just want to be called a Jedi’
 

Members should have the opportunity to ask for any custom rank they want. Doesn’t mean they’ll get it though >:D

Right, I understand what you're saying and in that instance we may want to develop more of an official rank list and a RP rank list for the nickname ranks. I'm not going to lie if someone is a Lord and they want to be called Knight unless Knight is a different color than the cyan knight I am going to be confused if I'm not council since the application would be tracked and approved by the council. Now I know it really isn't our business if we aren't the ones tracking the members but it can still get a little confusing especially from someone on the outside looking in if you ask me. 

I think that for now focusing our efforts on the original suggestion will get us the best results then once we have gotten comfortable with that we can explore the avenues of custom or RP ranks and maybe work out the difference between Official ranks and RP ranks. The Custom ranks could be something along the lines of Legends Lore for titles and status and then the official ranks could be more aligned with Canon Lore possibly. We could even push for more emphasis on the Wiki page pathway being displayed on the forum profile as a start then from there working our way into allowing members with the forum profile pathway displayed to use that pathway rank as their in-game rank. 

Lots of possibilities we just may want to focus on one big change at a time instead of shot gunning ideas and pulling the trigger on all of them as soon as we can. Been there, done that, doesn't end well. I do really like the idea though and I believe it would definitely breed more activity and engagement with the clan and the game just for right now I think we should focus on the ranks and the new pathway.  Also I think we need the :joyteeth: emoji brough to the forums so I can torment Darman a little more than just on discord kekeke.

*edit*

Having seen what Darman also posted I do really like the Non Force user paths as well simply because yes we all might use lightsabers and the force but if we are going along the lines of ranks we can relate to then being able to start as a foundling and end up a commando would be pretty cool for those who don't really see themselves as a Jedi. I think we may want to decide if we want a more militaristic (republic army) and a more freelancer (bounty hunter or smuggler) path. 

Edited February 4 by Maverick

[nikmat936]

32 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Right, I understand what you're saying and in that instance we may want to develop more of an official rank list and a RP rank list for the nickname ranks. I'm not going to lie if someone is a Lord and they want to be called Knight unless Knight is a different color than the cyan knight I am going to be confused if I'm not council since the application would be tracked and approved by the council. Now I know it really isn't our business if we aren't the ones tracking the members but it can still get a little confusing especially from someone on the outside looking in if you ask me. 

I think that for now focusing our efforts on the original suggestion will get us the best results then once we have gotten comfortable with that we can explore the avenues of custom or RP ranks and maybe work out the difference between Official ranks and RP ranks. The Custom ranks could be something along the lines of Legends Lore for titles and status and then the official ranks could be more aligned with Canon Lore possibly. We could even push for more emphasis on the Wiki page pathway being displayed on the forum profile as a start then from there working our way into allowing members with the forum profile pathway displayed to use that pathway rank as their in-game rank. 

Lots of possibilities we just may want to focus on one big change at a time instead of shot gunning ideas and pulling the trigger on all of them as soon as we can. Been there, done that, doesn't end well. I do really like the idea though and I believe it would definitely breed more activity and engagement with the clan and the game just for right now I think we should focus on the ranks and the new pathway.  Also I think we need the :joyteeth: emoji brough to the forums so I can torment Darman a little more than just on discord kekeke.

*edit*

Having seen what Darman also posted I do really like the Non Force user paths as well simply because yes we all might use lightsabers and the force but if we are going along the lines of ranks we can relate to then being able to start as a foundling and end up a commando would be pretty cool for those who don't really see themselves as a Jedi. I think we may want to decide if we want a more militaristic (republic army) and a more freelancer (bounty hunter or smuggler) path. 

My previous posts have accounted for all these questions. Let’s say you think a player is a Knight when they’re rly a Lord. It may be confusing, but it’s confusing about a small detail that’s easy to explain and account for.

Functionally, whether they’re a Lord or a Knight tells you almost nothing about the player’s role in the clan (hence my reference to Picco earning club captain as a Jedi).

 

Trying to map out +20 ranks, when maybe only 5-10 people will be interested in dark/light/neutral/republic/etc paths, it seems like way too much work for too little gain.
 

A custom rank system is easy to implement, easy to change in terms of its rules, easy to moderate, and we’ll have 4-5 people right off the bat to test it on.

 

If it doesn’t work out, we get rid of the custom rank system. But it’s so easy to implement, and effects so few people, why not try it? Why do all this leg work when a custom rank system would work for us right now?

 

Edit: my previous posts also mentioned the standard rank would be shown as your current rank on wikijawa, the custom rank mentioned under Accomplishments. So there’s always an easy record.

Edited February 4 by nikmat936

[Darman]

17 minutes ago, nikmat936 said:

My previous posts have accounted for all these questions. Let’s say you think a player is a Knight when they’re rly a Lord. It may be confusing, but it’s confusing about a small detail that’s easy to explain and account for.

Functionally, whether they’re a Lord or a Knight tells you almost nothing about the player’s role in the clan (hence my reference to Picco earning club captain as a Jedi).

 

Trying to map out +20 ranks, when maybe only 5-10 people will be interested in dark/light/neutral/republic/etc paths, it seems like way too much work for too little gain.
 

A custom rank system is easy to implement, easy to change in terms of its rules, easy to moderate, and we’ll have 4-5 people right off the bat to test it on.

 

If it doesn’t work out, we get rid of the custom rank system. But it’s so easy to implement, and effects so few people, why not try it? Why do all this leg work when a custom rank system would work for us right now?

 

Edit: my previous posts also mentioned the standard rank would be shown as your current rank on wikijawa, the custom rank mentioned under Accomplishments. So there’s always an easy record.

 

I'd say my argument for that would still be what I said above, BUT then use your concept to start a weekly Star Wars themed DND event, perhaps using the event server. It would satiate both desires I think.

[Maverick]

19 minutes ago, nikmat936 said:

My previous posts have accounted for all these questions. Let’s say you think a player is a Knight when they’re rly a Lord. It may be confusing, but it’s confusing about a small detail that’s easy to explain and account for.

Functionally, whether they’re a Lord or a Knight tells you almost nothing about the player’s role in the clan (hence my reference to Picco earning club captain as a Jedi).

 

Trying to map out +20 ranks, when maybe only 5-10 people will be interested in dark/light/neutral/republic/etc paths, it seems like way too much work for too little gain.
 

A custom rank system is easy to implement, easy to change in terms of its rules, easy to moderate, and we’ll have 4-5 people right off the bat to test it on.

 

If it doesn’t work out, we get rid of the custom rank system. But it’s so easy to implement, and effects so few people, why not try it? Why do all this leg work when a custom rank system would work for us right now?

 

Edit: my previous posts also mentioned the standard rank would be shown as your current rank on wikijawa, the custom rank mentioned under Accomplishments. So there’s always an easy record.

Right like I said I get what you're saying. The issue we would face with confusion is that not everyone is going to ask those questions especially not people on the outside which will still breed confusion. I personally think we should focus on implementing the new ranks and pathway for now then visit the custom ranks since we already are making such a big jump contemplating bringing old ranks back and making a dark side path as far as ranks go. That's just how I feel though. Better to take more baby steps and make sure we don't fall over than one giant leap and risking the possibility of falling off the pillar. That's just my personal experience though of course the council will agree on what's best for the clan.

[nikmat936]

Ls in the chat for Camera, what a n00b ;3

[Helena Revan]

The purpose of ranks is to give members and guests some idea of a person's progress advancing through the clan.  The more complex the system becomes, the less effective it is at its primary function.  If this idea has any chance of advancing, and not being immediately abandoned due to the difficulty of explaining and maintaining it, it needs to be fairly simple and easy to keep track of.

 

That said, lots of the ideas involving professions/occupations could still be used somewhere, such as through the "pathways" feature on WikiJawa.  This could certainly be refined and extended if someone, or perhaps several people, have the time and dedication to devote to it.  Also the "conquests" idea that we tried a few years ago, where the members of various factions—light, dark, other—would compete in various events and collect points in the process, toward some goal of winning over the course of a series of events.  But this would require careful thought and a commitment of time and energy on the part of those willing to coördinate it.

 

Lastly, a few years ago I suggested allowing three Jedi rank progressions, using the same rank names but alternative colours: green for consulars, yellow for sentinels, cyan (blue) for guardians, with the Guardian rank becoming Consular, Sentinel, or Guardian according to which path one chose.  Members wouldn't be locked into one pathway if they decided to change classes.  This could still be a bit complicated to administer, but less so than having to come up with different names for each rank; except at the Guardian rank the same names would be used, and only the colours would differ.  And this could function alongside a Dark Side pathway as outlined above, which would just use red, but have different rank names.  I suppose you could extend the colour choices up to the top, as well.

 

This may look confusing at first, but it's not so bad: it's still the same rank list for all three classes of Jedi.  Only the colours distinguish them.  And one set of Sith ranks for those who want them:

 

Leader | Leader | Leader | Leader

Council | Council | Council | Council

Master | Master | Master | Master

Lord | Lord | Lord | Lord

Elite | Elite | Elite | Elite

Consular | Sentinel | Guardian | Warrior

Knight | Knight | Knight | Marauder

Jedi | Jedi | Jedi | Sith

Adept | Adept | Adept | Acolyte

Padawan | Padawan | Padawan | Apprentice

Initiate | Initiate | Initiate | Novice